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WillyP
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Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 68
Location: New Hampshire, USA
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 Posted: 17.02.2007, 17:14 Post subject: ?Vista Vs. XP? |
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Howdy... Just wondering if anyone has tested D3, D3edit, and the various level editing tools on Vista?
I'm still using W98 but I am going to build a new computer and I am undecided on o/s: XP or Vista.
Tentative specs: 3.4ghz Pentium D. Asus P5B. 2Gb. EVGA 7600GS. Seagate Barracuda 250Gb. Viewsonic 19" LCD.
Any thoughts will be greatly apprectiated!
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Do_Checkor
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Joined: 19 Nov 2000
Posts: 7768
Location: Oldenburg (Oldb.)
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| Posted: 17.02.2007, 21:20 Post subject: |
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Well have no experiences with D3/-tools on Vista but hey: I won't use Vista on my rig until SP2. It was a pain in my 4$$ to deal with XP and all of its non-conpatibilities and bugs and lack of drivers 'n stuff until SP2.
XP pro from today seems pretty stable and ok - I don't see any serious advantages in Vista neither...
my 5 cents...
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WillyP
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Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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Location: New Hampshire, USA
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| Posted: 18.02.2007, 00:14 Post subject: |
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Yeah, I was kinda thinking that too... although a few people (non- descenters) have been raving about vista at work. Of course, no one really knows what's under the hood...
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Maulwurf
aka Seeker
Joined: 17 Jul 2001
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Location: Stuttgart
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| Posted: 18.02.2007, 10:20 Post subject: |
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| Do_Checkor wrote: | | I don't see any serious advantages in Vista neither... |
what??? you can switch the windows in 3d-mode!! that's a MUST have! go, get it! 
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Sniper
aka FHG
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 650
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| Posted: 18.02.2007, 13:37 Post subject: |
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OK, I give my PC new and actual Hardware and get to realize that actual Hardware do not suport 9x anymore. Some Parts I could bring to work with tricks and hacks but some hardware not.
And the only reason for this was Microsoft saying we do not support 9x anymore. And like cut off with a knife no new Hardware comes with 9x-drivers. More bad: For some older Hardware what was supported with 9x-Drivers on the manufactures homepage that driver vanishes from there.
But what do I want to say with this? As long as M$ support XP (2009? 2011? 2014?) I guess XP is the better choose because the thicknesses of childhood are healed. But in the worst case all suport including software and drivers will stop in 2009. Possibly you can work with XP some years longer without any problem (My father in law uses a 400 MHz, 256 GB RAM, Riva TNT 256 with Win 98 and is satisfied with it) but nevertheless it could be you badly need something new (Soft-/Hardware) in 2009, maybe M$ stopped supporting XP before und you must buy Vista 2 years after buying XP.
On the other Hand if you want to buy Vista I would advice you to wait up to 6 month to get enough working drivers and bugfixes for a convenient using of Vista.
That are all pros, cons and tips that come in my mind. I hope it gives you help for your decision. 
Btw.: I bought Vista one week before for testing issues but I wasn´t brave enough to install it yet. 
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Aga
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Joined: 29 Jun 2001
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Location: weit draussen bei Berlin
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| Posted: 18.02.2007, 16:41 Post subject: |
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I do not need Vista at all. And it does not matter, if MSoft will not support it from 2009 on.
I believe, that we have to change to Vista if the programs from other party donot support XP any longer.
My company, where I work, will not change within the next years too. It is too expensive and Vista may be a very black hole for companies, which have to work and get money.
Vista no thanks and better change to Linux which will be the trend in the future
Greetings
Peter
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WillyP
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| Posted: 18.02.2007, 17:37 Post subject: |
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Some good points from all, since I mostly run software that is proven to run well on XP, I think that will be my choice.
...LOL at the 400mhz box... I have an old 200mhz box, 48Mb, 2gig Hd... I have the original, oem version of W95 on it, I play Descent 1.0 on it, with an even older Trustmaster Wingman 2-button joystick...runs great! I also have a ton of older games on it for the kids, that would probly not run on W98...
About hardware not supporting 9x... Yes there are many products that do not support 9x. Soon there will be products not supporting XP, I would guess. I will be getting XP for this box also as W98 runs poorly at times. And a vid card... agp 4x, lol. But then I can LAN this box and the new one to play D3 with the kids.
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Last edited by WillyP on 18.02.2007, 18:21; edited 1 time in total |
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Marix
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| Posted: 18.02.2007, 21:33 Post subject: |
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Tried D3 on Vista. Due to driver limitations it seems impossible to get more than 70fps (even on GeForce 7600 GT which runs a 400-500 fps on Linux). My recommendation, use SUSE 
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King Lo
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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Location: Stuttgart, BW
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| Posted: 18.02.2007, 22:10 Post subject: |
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| Marix wrote: | | Tried D3 on Vista. Due to driver limitations it seems impossible to get more than 70fps (even on GeForce 7600 GT which runs a 400-500 fps on Linux). My recommendation, use SUSE |
Yeah, right, Microsoft stands for a system with a lot of graphical fun
But this makes it a lot slower, and as a documentation on N24 said, old PCs won't be able to use Vista. So: Buy new Hardware to have more fun 
Or you just use a better system which needs less working space ...
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WillyP
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| Posted: 20.02.2007, 04:22 Post subject: |
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70 FPS would be a vast improvement. I get a min around 20 using the secret demo timetest method... and at 20 it looks ten times faster than Multiplayer. I think the 7600GS should take care of that, without breaking the budget.
openSUSE sounds very interesting... I did a little research and there is now quite a bit of software availible for it. From what I understand I can run some windows proggys through WINE... has anyone done this with Descent3, D3edit and other level building tools?
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King Lo
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| Posted: 20.02.2007, 10:35 Post subject: |
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| WillyP wrote: | | From what I understand I can run some windows proggys through WINE... has anyone done this with Descent3, D3edit and other level building tools? |
You shouldn't only trust in wine, but should also try the free version of cedega.
Descent3 : yes (But Loki-Descent3 is better)
D3edit : well, it runs, but you cannnot insert textures
other level building tools: actually you can run x2orf on linux, d3tool isn't possible yet, OGF might run, but not sure, D3SDK works only with older gccs
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Aga
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Joined: 29 Jun 2001
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| Posted: 20.02.2007, 19:55 Post subject: |
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| Marix wrote: | | Tried D3 on Vista. Due to driver limitations it seems impossible to get more than 70fps (even on GeForce 7600 GT which runs a 400-500 fps on Linux). My recommendation, use SUSE |
Why not use Ubuntu? It is still much easier to install than SuSe (I have had Suse several years, but changed and I am very happy). Some D3 players using wine with the Win installlation and they are happy too.
But for sure, a little quick PC must be available
Greetings Aga
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WillyP
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| Posted: 20.02.2007, 23:50 Post subject: |
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If I can't insert custom textures then I think I will stick with XP. I'm no fan of MS, but it is what it is.
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Grendel
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Joined: 24 Jun 2004
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Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: 21.02.2007, 01:26 Post subject: |
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| GearDigist wrote: | Aaron McKenna, February 19, 2007 11:50
Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer (note how I don't make a single chair throwing, soft-spoken joke) blames software pirates in developing markets such as China, India, Brazil and Russia for the poor sales of Windows Vista.
He says that Microsoft plans on tightening the screws on Windows Genuine Advantage, Microsoft's DRM solution from hell; thus ensuring that it will be Joe Consumer who suffers for the poor sales of Vista which obviously have nothing to do with the fact that Vista is bug ridden and not the Second Coming we had been potentially promised. |
And:
| GearDigist wrote: | Aaron McKenna, February 20, 2007 08:35
The good chaps at Infinite Loop over on Ars have gone and taken a sample of Windows Vista reviews only to find that, to the shock and horror of people everywhere, that 75% of these reviews make mention of Mac OS X; even going so far as to blaspheme and compare it to Vista.
Perhaps the slow sales of Vindows Wista are not due to rampant piracy, but a more reasonable "It's crap"?
As Tech Review said in their review, "Ironically, playing around with Vista for more than a month has done what years of experience and exhortations from Mac-loving friends could not: it has converted me into a Mac fan."
This is serious fry for Microsoft, now that previously Windows-addled professionals can get a Mac and, if worst comes to worst, run a copy of Windows XP on boot camp. No need to go near Vista for another year or four. Plus we've got the next Mac OS coming down the tubes. |
I'll lean back and watch while using XP for the time being.
Last edited by Grendel on 21.02.2007, 01:32; edited 1 time in total |
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Marix
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Joined: 30 May 2001
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| Posted: 21.02.2007, 15:13 Post subject: |
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Actually, a few months ago I had to install Ubuntu (actually Kubuntu) on a comp in a dorm. Actually it was a real pain, as ubuntu does not include VPN-Clients on the install disks, while suse did. And the last 3 years on every comp I installed SuSE it was about 3 clicks. However I admit it is a matter of personal taste. In my eyes, Ubuntu is great if you want Mail, Internet and Office, if you want more, use SuSE.
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--Arthur C. Clarke
Last edited by Marix on 21.02.2007, 15:14; edited 1 time in total |
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WillyP
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Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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Location: New Hampshire, USA
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| Posted: 22.02.2007, 00:51 Post subject: |
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It'd be nice if everything were free, then there would be no need for DRM, people would develop OS's that they wanted to use themselves, and Microsoft would find a way to profit from it... somehow...
When Descent first came out I was using Digital Research DOS. There was nothing on my computer by MS, and I liked it that way.
And here's something I found a while ago...
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Sniper
aka FHG
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 650
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| Posted: 22.02.2007, 08:57 Post subject: |
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| WillyP wrote: | | LOL at the 400mhz box... I have an old 200mhz box, 48Mb, 2gig Hd... I have the original, oem version of W95 on it, I play Descent 1.0 on it, with an even older Trustmaster Wingman 2-button joystick...runs great! I also have a ton of older games on it for the kids, that would probly not run on W98... |
| WillyP wrote: | | When Descent first came out I was using Digital Research DOS. There was nothing on my computer by MS, and I liked it that way. |
I remember those times melancholy. For productive and serious working I´m using my 600 MHz Notebook with Crusoe-processor and Windows ME preinstalled. But not using ME but Win 3.1 with Star Calc 2.0 and Star Write 2.0.
Switching the processor down to 300 MHz for powersaving-issues it is even fast as hell, well working and an eye-catcher at meetings.
So much people are surprised how well-working and efficient Software from "the good old days" can be.
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The Lion
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: 22.02.2007, 20:31 Post subject: |
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Worth a read, but it's long and many people might not bother with it. I found this
video which clearly explains the problem with the current form of "Trusted" computing:
http://www.lafkon.net/tc/
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WillyP
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Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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Location: New Hampshire, USA
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| Posted: 23.02.2007, 01:52 Post subject: |
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Nice Video.
I trust MS completely... I am certain that if I bend over and spread my cheeks Bill will give me a safe screwing.
I am also certain MS will find a way to profit from it. Windows being what it is, and MS being such a major force in the industry, I don't need a crystal ball to see Windows (and therefore, MS) as the 'Traffic Cop' in any TC scheme. The bill refered to in most anti TC rants was shot down in 2002 (Wikipedia' article about this bill) but of course you can't count on a bad bill to stay down. 
List of members of the Trusted Computing Group.
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Last edited by WillyP on 23.02.2007, 02:43; edited 4 times in total |
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